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Former poker pro Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose situations into Win-Wins.
Episodes

5 days ago
5 days ago
In this Win-Win Podcast Episode, Liv and Igor chat to one of the world's most successful sports bettors: Haralabos "Bob" Voulgaris. Revered for his hyper-analytical, data-driven approach to gambling, Bob soon became known as one of the most prolific NBA bettors in the history of the basketball, a reputation that even got him hired by Marc Cuban to run strategy for the Dallas Mavericks!
As well as exploring his various secrets of success (and failures!), we also hear about his most recent undertaking… buying the 3rd division Spanish football team CD Castellon to see if his strategic formula can bring them to the 1st division. Ambitious stuff, and one of the many reasons why Haralabos offers a unique perspective on sports, the often seedy world of gambling, and zero-sum competition itself.
Oh and apologies for Igor's mic! I seemingly forgot to plug it in and thus his sound is bad (so we had to cut a lot of his questions). Sorry Igor.
Chapters
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:10 Formative Games
00:04:42 Betting on Basketball
00:08:43 Finding Edges
00:18:52 Building Models & Using Data
00:23:46 Floyd Mayweather as a Beard
00:25:27 Ethics in Gambling?
00:30:03 Addiction to Pressure
00:33:44 Dallas Mavericks
00:47:09 Buying CD Castellon
00:57:20 Passion in Sports
01:04:00 Data Diven Approach to Football
01:11:19 AI & Sports
01:18:23 Advice for Younger Self
Links
♾️ Haralabos’s X (Twitter) https://x.com/haralabob?s=20
♾️ Ridge Regression https://www.mygreatlearning.com/blog/what-is-ridge-regression/
♾️ CD Castellon Football Club https://www.cdcastellon.com/
♾️ Meditations by Marcus Aurelius https://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html
♾️ The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose games into Win-Wins.
Credits
♾️ Hosted by: Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov
♾️ Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
♾️ Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt

Wednesday Sep 13, 2023
#8 - Simon Sinek: Competition, Business and the Infinite Mindset
Wednesday Sep 13, 2023
Wednesday Sep 13, 2023
In this week's Win-Win episode, I chat to legendary thinker and speaker Simon Sinek about the nature of competition in business, and in particular, the key ingredient of all enduring companies and leaders: The Infinite Mindset. We also explore the pros and cons of short-term goals, the power of enemies, Moloch Traps, how to be a better speaker, the need for optimism, and so much more.
Chapters
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:21 - What is the Infinite Game?
00:06:45 - Misaligned incentives
00:10:23 - Infinite Mindset in business
00:17:23 - Simon’s worthy rival
00:21:30 - Good and evil
00:24:24 - Why we need an enemy
00:27:08 - The Moloch trap
00:31:56 - Existential threats
00:38:01 - The priorities of business
00:44:10 - Ethical fading / People before profit
00:50:14 - Finding the businesses to support
00:51:50 - "Find your Why" test
00:56:18 - Public speaking
01:00:54 - Being an optimist
01:02:45 - Winning the infinite game
Simon's Biography:
Simon is a visionary thinker, who is probably best known for his TED Talk on the concept of WHY, which has been viewed over 60 million times, and his video on millennials in the workplace which has gone on to be seen hundreds of millions of times. He continues to share inspiration through his bestselling books, including global bestseller Start with WHY and New York Times bestsellers Leaders Eat Last and The Infinite Game, as well as his podcast, A Bit of Optimism. In addition, Simon is the founder of The Optimism Company, a leadership learning and development company, and he publishes other inspiring thinkers and doers through his publishing partnership with Penguin Random House called Optimism Press.
Links
♾️ The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek https://simonsinek.com/books/the-infinite-game/
♾️ Finite and Infinite Games by Dr. James Carse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_and_Infinite_Games
♾️ Find Your Why by Simon Sinek https://simonsinek.com/books/find-your-why/
♾️ Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last/
♾️ Milton Freidman NYT OpEd https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html
♾️ Ethical Fading https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ztNE1CvnV4
♾️ Banking Act of 1933 (Glass-Steagall) https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/glass-steagall-act
♾️ Start with Why by Simon Sinek
♾️ Simon's TED Talk: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4
♾️ The Art of Presenting Course https://simonsinek.com/product/the-art-of-presenting-with-simon/
♾️ Simon Sinek podcast w/ Dr James Carse https://simonsinek.com/podcast/episodes/the-infinite-game-with-dr-james-carse/
The Win-Win Podcast
Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose games into Win-Wins.
Credits
♾️ Hosted by: Liv Boeree
♾️ Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
♾️ Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt

Wednesday Aug 23, 2023
#7 - Joseph Gordon-Levitt: AI and The Film Industry
Wednesday Aug 23, 2023
Wednesday Aug 23, 2023
Hollywood is currently at a standstill due to the joint writer's & actor's strike, in part because of the growing threat from generative AI.
In this episode, I talk to one of the industry's greatest talents and thinkers -- Joseph Gordon-Levitt -- about how he believes the industry needs to adapt in the age of synthetic media.
We also hear his thoughts on how technology is reinventing our relationship with creativity, human connection, even p*rnography.
Joe's Biography
Joe Gordon-Levitt is an American actor, writer, and director. He has received various accolades, including nominations for the Golden Globe Award for Best Actor – Motion Picture Musical or Comedy for his leading performances in 500 Days of Summer and 50/50. He is also the Founder of Emmy Award winning collaborative production company HitRECORD.
Chapters
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:46 - AI paying residuals
00:14:35 - The right amount of competition in society
00:23:43 - Intersection of technology and creativity
00:30:27 - DonJon
00:32:53 - Addictive technology
00:44:50 - Competition in acting
00:00:49 - Competitive nature vs nurture
00:54:22 - HITRECORD & paying contributors
01:02:36 - Aliens
01:04:37 - Staying optimistic
Links
♾️ Joe’s Washington Post OpEd - “If artificial intelligence uses your work, it should pay you”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/26/joseph-gordon-levitt-artificial-intelligence-residuals/
♾️ Jaron Lanier's TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ-PUXPVlos
♾️ The Invisible Hand
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand
♾️ Center for Human Technology
https://www.humanetech.com/
♾️ Don Jon
♾️ Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow
♾️ Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66354.Flow
♾️ HITRECORD
https://hitrecord.org/
♾️ The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Age-Illustrated-Primer-Spectra/dp/0553380966
♾️ Culture Series by Ian Banks
https://www.amazon.com/The-Culture-9-book-series/dp/B07WLZZ9WV
Credits
♾️ Hosted by: Liv Boeree
♾️ Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
♾️ Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt

Wednesday Aug 09, 2023
#6 - Cate Hall: Poker, Pandemics, Overcoming Addiction, and Meeting God
Wednesday Aug 09, 2023
Wednesday Aug 09, 2023
What is it like to be an atheist who suddenly meets God? How can poker make us think more clearly about existential risk?
These are just a few of the many fascinating topics this conversation with my good friend Cate Hall covers. Cate is probably best known for her stint as a professional poker player, however she also has worked as a top level corporate lawyer in Washington, and more recently co-founded and ran a biosecurity company that aims to mitigate the threat of biorisks to humanity, like pandemics. Her life hasn’t been all smooth sailing though; for a number of years, Cate experienced a severe mental health and drug addiction issues that nearly took her life.
I’m so grateful to Cate for this honest and frank conversation about her experiences, and for showing us how to adopt a rational, Win-Win mindset even in the face of dire adversity.
Chapters
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:57 - Practising Law
00:05:09 - Parasitic nature of legal system
00:16:24 - From Law to Poker
00:18:19 - Reading Body Language
00:24:41 - Highs and Lows in Poker
00:28:36 - Women in Poker
00:36:21 - Psychotic Break
00:45:58 - Meeting God
00:53:30 - Psychosis or Spirituality?
01:03:03 - Overcoming Addiction
01:08:24 - Current Beliefs
01:13:07 - Biosecurity
01:21:46 - Democratisation of Information
Links
♾️ Samsara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra
♾️ Pascal Mugging
https://nickbostrom.com/papers/pascal.pdf
♾️ Gnosticism and The Demiurge
https://gnosticismexplained.org/the-gnostic-demiurge/
♾️ USAID Deep Vision Program
https://www.usaid.gov/news-information/press-releases/oct-5-2021-usaid-announces-new-125-million-project-detect-unknown-viruses-pandemic-potential
♾️ Bodhisattva
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva
Credits:
Hosted By: Liv Boeree
Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt

Thursday Jul 27, 2023
#5 - Isabelle Boemeke: The Cut-Throat Worlds of Modelling and Activism
Thursday Jul 27, 2023
Thursday Jul 27, 2023
In this fifth episode of the Win-Win Podcast, I sit down with my good friend Isabelle Boemeke to discuss how competition manifests in the worlds of modelling and activism.
Isabelle's journey began her small hometown in Brazil, where she was discovered as a model at an early age, and soon found herself moving to Miami aged eighteen to launch a highly successful modelling career. But three years ago, she took a complete U-turn to become the world's first nuclear energy influencer. Adopting the alter-ego "Isodope", she began making viral videos that educate about the pros and cons of nuclear energy as a source of abundant clean energy, and as a tool to combat climate change. Her work has led to her being featured in an Oliver Stone documentary, onto the TED stage, and even changed the nuclear energy policy of California. One of the raddest people I know!
Chapters
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:18 Games growing up
00:06:34 Modelling
00:15:54 Competition among women
00:21:33 Body Image Pressures
00:31:25 Beauty Filters and Social Media
00:37:42 Religion and Evolution
00:48:47 Nuclear Energy and the Creation of Isodope
01:01:17 Saving Diablo Canyon
01:05:31 Activism
01:21:20 Motherhood
Links
♾️ Isodope https://isodope.com/
♾️ https://www.tiktok.com/@isodope
♾️ https://www.instagram.com/i_sodope/?hl=en
♾️ Isabelle's TED Talk https://www.ted.com/talks/isabelle_boemeke_nuclear_power_is_our_best_hope_to_ditch_fossil_fuels?language=en
♾️ Richard Dawkins - Greatest Show On Earth https://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Show-Earth-Evidence-Evolution/dp/1416594795
♾️ Our Inner Ape https://www.amazon.com/Our-Inner-Ape-Primatologist-Explains/dp/1594481962
♾️ Carolyn Porko (planetary scientist) https://twitter.com/carolynporco
CREDITS:
Hosted by: Liv Boeree
Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt

Thursday Jul 06, 2023
#4 - Jordan Hall: Building a better civilization
Thursday Jul 06, 2023
Thursday Jul 06, 2023
If you ever downloaded online videos since the year 2000, this man is who you should thank! This week I’m speaking with technologist and philosopher Jordan Hall (formerly Jordan Greenhall). Jordan was a founder of numerous early-internet companies including video codec company DivX. However, I got to know him through his contributions to a community known as “Game B”, which seeks to understand how human civilization can transform itself into a more sustainable, anti-rivalrous, win-win dynamic.
Today’s conversation is a philosophical and technical dive into the anthropological drivers of competition, complexity, centra and decentralization, and the role of AI in shaping a more Game B future.
JORDAN’S BIOGRAPHY:
Jordan is now in his seventeenth year of building disruptive technology companies.
First as an early employee crafting strategy and product for MP3.com, then at InterVU (acquired by Akamai) and then finally in 2000 launching and leading the online digital video revolution as founder and CEO of DivX.
After somewhat successfully navigating two financial crises and an IPO (and going down in flames at Stage6), he left the helm at DivX to return his attention to the big picture. He tried his hand at capitalism – combining Angel investment at the sharp edge of the Schumpeter wave — with participation in a number of think tanks and institutes; most notably, the Aspen Institute and the Santa Fe Institute where he served on the Board of Trustees for five sweet years.
This exposure led him to the conclusion that humanity is in the midst of a world historical transition which will likely kill all of us (see Mad Max) but just might end in a truly amazing future (see Star Trek). Getting there is going to require many things of us – most notably a significant upgrade of our individual and collective capacity for thought and action.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:26 Childhood Games & Competition
07:14 Evolutionary Reason for Positive Externalities when Competing
11:45 What is Game B
26:42 Cybernetic control structures and the Culture Wars
32:10 Capitalism and Communism as two sides of the same coin
35:03 Why Game A is self-terminating
53:10 How to move toward a Game B society
58:50 How individuals can move towards Game B
01:03:18 The Hyperconversation and Collective Insight
01:06:10 Creating the next Collective Intelligence
01:10:10 How to protect against bad actors
01:18:35 How to cultivate more of a Game B lifestyle
01:30:35 Mental resilience against doom and negativity
01:38:20 AI as a tool against Moloch
01:42:27 What’s next?
RELEVANT LINKS:
♾️ The Secrets of Our Success - Joseph Heinrich
♾️ Understanding the Blue Church
♾️ Collective Insight Practices - Bonnitta Roy
♾️ The Medium is the Message - Marshall Mcluhan
CREDITS:
♾️ Hosted by: Liv Boeree
♾️ Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
♾️ Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt

Monday Jun 19, 2023
#3 - Carl Robichaud: Solving the Nuclear Dilemma
Monday Jun 19, 2023
Monday Jun 19, 2023
Nuclear war is arguably the ultimate lose-lose game. But how plausible is it in this day and age, and what have we learned from living the last ~70 years under the nuclear shadow? Is there a way to permanently escape it?
This is the topic of today’s conversation with Carl Robichaud, one of the world’s leading experts on nuclear security. We dig into everything from the current Russia/Ukraine conflict, the game theory of escalation and deterrence, to successful coordination mechanisms and de-escalation strategies that seem to have kept nuclear war at bay. We also explore how lessons from nuclear policy could apply to risks from novel technologies like AI and synthetic bioweapons.
In other words: how do we escape the nuclear Moloch Trap?
CARL'S BIOGRAPHY:
Carl has worked for twenty five years as a researcher and advisor on international arms control, security policy, and nonproliferation at organisations including the Carnegie Corporation of New York, The Century Foundation and the Global Security Institute. He currently leads Longview Philanthropy’s programme on nuclear weapons and existential risk.
If you are interested in learning more, or directly supporting the Nuclear Weapons Policy Fund which provides targeted support to top projects in the field, you can find further info here:
♾️ https://www.longview.org/nuclear/
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:20 Russia/Ukraine conflict, China & current risk landscape
09:14 Cuban Missile Crisis
14:30 List of other close calls
16:55 How might AI-generated fake media affect nuclear security?
22:08 The Game Theory of Nuclear War
25:50 Difference between fission and fusion bombs
29:40 Nash Equilibria and Mutually Assured Destruction
33:06 Stability-Instability Paradox
34:19 What’s the bull argument for nuclear weapons?
37:45 New technologies/weapons that could break MAD
44:40 How to factor-in human irrationality?
51:11 Moloch and the Security Dilemma
53:35 Arms control, treaties and breaking out of the Moloch trap
56:30 Treaties, Nuclear Test Bans, non-proliferation agreements
01:02:08 IAEA, verification and enforcement
01:09:23 What kind of people were successful at forming treaties?
01:11:05 New coordination mechanisms?
01:14:14 Trustless verification, Zero Knowledge Protocol
01:21:58 Lessons from nuclear that apply to AI and bioweapons
01:27:00 AI Pause Letter
01:30:01 The need for a third Attractor
01:34:50 What can ordinary citizens do about nuclear risk?
01:41:40 Philanthropic opportunities
POST-RECORDING CORRECTIONS: The 2023 IAEA regular budget is $396 million, not $300 million as Carl stated. For the police department budget comparison, global IAEA safeguards now roughly equal the annual budget of the Cincinnati police department, not Washington DC's police budget, because DC’s budget has grown so much in comparison.
Carl said the most common US warhead type was 300 kilotons. This is roughly 20 times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb and about 150 times smaller than the Tsar Bomba. US subs carry both 90-kiloton W76-1 or 455-kiloton W88 missiles. Trump admin deployed a new "low yield" W76-2 which is 5-7 kt, or one third to half a Hiroshima yield; these weapons may be seen as "more usable". The largest US bomb in the arsenal is the B-63 gravity bomb at 1.2 MT (or 1200 kt).
RELEVANT LINKS
Wikipedia - Nuclear Close Calls
Command and Control by Eric Schlosser
Middlebury Institute for International Studies
Center for Strategic and International Studies
Federation of American Scientists
International Atomic Energy Agency
The US National Academy of Sciences
CREDITS:
Hosted by: Liv Boeree
Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt

Wednesday May 31, 2023
#2 - Bill Perkins: Sex, Markets and Maximizing Life Fulfillment
Wednesday May 31, 2023
Wednesday May 31, 2023
Welcome to the second episode of the Win-Win podcast! In this episode, I sit down with the incredible Bill Perkins to discuss the ups and downs of trading and Wall Street, crazy prop betting, power dynamics, poker, and how to optimize your life and money for maximum fun and fulfillment.
Here’s a bit more about Bill…
Bill Perkins is Founder and Head Trader for Skylar Capital. He has more than two decades of experience in the energy trading industry. Bill is also the founder and president of Small Ventures USA, LP, a private equity and venture capital firm based in Houston, Texas, and founded in 1997. He is also the President and Founder of SkyFi, a democratizing satellite technology, data and access company removing barriers to capturing satellite images. He released his first book in 2020 titled “Die with Zero” which gives strategic advice on how to live your best life no matter your income.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction
01:36 Formative Games
06:23 Societal Programming
13:26 Power Dynamics between Men and Women
20:45 Texas Culture vs New York Competitive Culture
32:37 Market Trading
45:31 Market Manipulation and Meme Stocks
51:30 Bank Bailouts 59.33 Poker
01:10:41 Balancing Life and Competitiveness
01:16:49 Victim Stories & Accountability
01:29:56 Prop Bets & Mental Blocks
01:41:35 Die With Zero
01:54:29 Living Win-Win
RELEVANT LINKS:
- Die with Zero by Bill Perkins
- Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin
- Choice Emotional Intelligence Class
CREDITS:
Hosted by: Liv Boeree
Produced & Edited by: Raymond Wei
Audio Mix by: Keir Schmidt