This algorithm thing is a bit bonkers, Liv. I just published a story on my Substack about a song I once wrote in honour of Texas poker legend Johnny Hughes who used to write for Bluff and Poker Europe, and now it’s dropping you into my feed.
FIRE is trash. They made this problem by witch hunting professors they thought were too liberal for most of their existence and now they are trying to save face. No thanks.
We have been defending liberal professors from punishment since my very first letter for FIRE way back in 2001. We have also been defending the conservative professors. The idea that you think we are engaged in a witch hunt against professors means you really don’t know anything about us. Countless professors, and countless liberal professors didn’t lose their jobs because of us.
Okay. “Countless?” Save it for the rubes. I can see the rhetorical trend from FIRE over the last 25 years, especially alongside its Christian fundamentalist David French. You use the same tactics as those religious extremists who have destroyed free speech (and may other freedoms) in America bc you’ve been working from a false assumption that there is a liberal bias on campuses. FIRE has a specifically pronounced defense of conservative ideology. The few “liberal” defenses that you claim are not bad, but are minuscule and largely equivocations to cover your overwhelming bias and antagonism toward non-conservative causes and ideas. This tactic does work, I’ll admit, particularly with prolife-evangelical-types, but it is a tactic that is slowly unraveling. I know plenty about FIRE.
Here’s my dare: name the major campus free speech case involving a professor on the left over the last 20 years that FIRE ignored. Seriously. See if you can find one.
Because the actual record is the opposite of what you’re claiming.
FIRE has been defending liberal professors, left-wing professors, anti-war professors, pro-Palestinian professors, anti-Trump professors, union-friendly professors, and professors targeted by right-wing pressure campaigns for the entire time I’ve been here. I started at FIRE in 2001 when FIRE was barely two.
A few examples, since apparently we’re pretending this record doesn’t exist:
William I. Robinson at UC Santa Barbara, investigated after sending course material comparing Israeli treatment of Palestinians to Nazi treatment of Jews:
And if you want data instead of anecdotes, FIRE built the Scholars Under Fire project to document attempts to punish professors for protected expression:
So no, the historical record is not that FIRE went after professors for being too liberal. The record is that FIRE has spent decades defending professors across the spectrum, including a very long list of professors on the left and professors targeted by the right.
You can dislike FIRE. That’s your right. But this particular claim is just backward.
That's great! I stand corrected and gladly concede my point made early about the witch hunt, and I even apologize for it. I looked into each one of those links and found them to generally represent solid defenses of free speech, so it took me a while to respond. Although it is usually a tactic of right-leaning religious fundamentalists to declare they have some good intention "we care about women's health" or "we stand for free speech" to mask an overly conservative (and often extremist religious) agenda that erodes trust in institutions like universities, I would further say that FIRE does not completely fit that description. I did grow up in Southern Baptist conventions and churches, and often heard David French bemoan the "liberal indoctrination" occuring on campuses in more than one gathering, so I my skepticism largely comes from that and the equivocations right-wing religious communities use to mask their attempts at inserting religious beliefs into law. It seems as though some of that has been slightly transformed. While I remain skeptical of the criteria used for selecting cases (the overwhelming majority of them are defending conservative voices and you should know the foolishness of the question you asked about naming a left-leaning prof you didn't defend, although I can, Melissa McCoul), the language used in how FIRE pieces are written, the editorial positions on what incidents they cover, the survey criteria established by FIRE for determining free-speech infringements... I will certainly refrain from labeling FIRE "trash" or witch-hunting liberal professors.
You guys have fought the IHRA. Which I think you shouldn’t have - or at least not in a black and white way, the enforcement methods are what matter IMO - but it strengthens your point.
The critique you offer may be well articulated but it doesn't fit the org you're aiming it at. FIRE has support on the left and the right, as it should.
Read my recent response. You're not wrong. Although, I would encourage you to look closely at FIRE's criteria for selecting cases and determining how to editorialize their messages, plus their emphasis on protecting conservative professors and denigrating the institutions of higher education.
Ok, but why do you have such vitriol against my husband? His family fled Russia when he was 4 to avoid persecution, so he is as German as you are American. Not that any of that should matter in terms of one’s judgement of someone’s character.
My dad is Russian too, but my family fought the bad guys thank you very much! Don’t lump all of us together! There are plenty of good Russians, just a lot of of us left!
no this bill was very much real. It was Bill C-63, the Online Harms Act, introduced by the Liberals back in Feb 2024. It straight-up would’ve changed the Criminal Code to make “advocating or promoting genocide” (which is a speech offence—words alone) punishable by up to life in prison (it was 5 years before). Plus it added a brand new “offence motivated by hatred” that could’ve tacked life imprisonment onto ANY federal crime if it was driven by hate based on race, religion, gender, etc. Free speech groups howled over it because yeah, it made life in prison for hate speech a real possibility.
This algorithm thing is a bit bonkers, Liv. I just published a story on my Substack about a song I once wrote in honour of Texas poker legend Johnny Hughes who used to write for Bluff and Poker Europe, and now it’s dropping you into my feed.
Well I’m glad to know someone is seeing my stuff!
FIRE is trash. They made this problem by witch hunting professors they thought were too liberal for most of their existence and now they are trying to save face. No thanks.
We have been defending liberal professors from punishment since my very first letter for FIRE way back in 2001. We have also been defending the conservative professors. The idea that you think we are engaged in a witch hunt against professors means you really don’t know anything about us. Countless professors, and countless liberal professors didn’t lose their jobs because of us.
Okay. “Countless?” Save it for the rubes. I can see the rhetorical trend from FIRE over the last 25 years, especially alongside its Christian fundamentalist David French. You use the same tactics as those religious extremists who have destroyed free speech (and may other freedoms) in America bc you’ve been working from a false assumption that there is a liberal bias on campuses. FIRE has a specifically pronounced defense of conservative ideology. The few “liberal” defenses that you claim are not bad, but are minuscule and largely equivocations to cover your overwhelming bias and antagonism toward non-conservative causes and ideas. This tactic does work, I’ll admit, particularly with prolife-evangelical-types, but it is a tactic that is slowly unraveling. I know plenty about FIRE.
Here’s my dare: name the major campus free speech case involving a professor on the left over the last 20 years that FIRE ignored. Seriously. See if you can find one.
Because the actual record is the opposite of what you’re claiming.
FIRE has been defending liberal professors, left-wing professors, anti-war professors, pro-Palestinian professors, anti-Trump professors, union-friendly professors, and professors targeted by right-wing pressure campaigns for the entire time I’ve been here. I started at FIRE in 2001 when FIRE was barely two.
A few examples, since apparently we’re pretending this record doesn’t exist:
William I. Robinson at UC Santa Barbara, investigated after sending course material comparing Israeli treatment of Palestinians to Nazi treatment of Jews:
https://www.thefire.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/a77913a3f63bc0c03cabe0f736b50327.pdf
https://www.thefire.org/news/greg-huffington-post-uc-santa-barbara-investigation-professor
https://www.thefire.org/news/greg-huffington-post-conclusion-ucsbs-investigation-professor-robinson
Ward Churchill. FIRE defended his speech rights and academic freedom even though plenty of people hated what he said:
https://www.thefire.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/5252_3678.pdf
https://www.thefire.org/news/torch/golden-rule-and-academic-freedom
https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-issues-analysis-churchill-report
https://www.thefire.org/news/ward-churchill-fired-whats-next
Steven Salaita, after Illinois rescinded his appointment over tweets about Israel:
https://www.thefire.org/news/salaita-sues-u-illinois-over-rescinded-job-offer
https://www.thefire.org/news/steven-salaita-settles-lawsuits-university-illinois
https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/eternally-radical-idea/free-speech-campus-10-worst-offenders-2014
Marc Lamont Hill, when Temple faced pressure to investigate him over speech on Palestine:
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fire-letter-temple-university-december-3-2018
https://www.thefire.org/cases/temple-university-professor-facing-investigation-pro-palestinian-speech/documents
https://www.thefire.org/news/congressmans-call-investigation-university-arizona-faculty-would-if-granted-violate-first
Kevin Allred at Montclair State, targeted after anti-Trump tweets:
https://www.thefire.org/cases/montclair-state-university-adjunct-hiring-reversed-after-trump-assassination-tweets
https://www.thefire.org/news/montclair-state-university-ignoring-questions-about-twitter-controversy-penalizes-another
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fire-letter-montclair-state-university-august-4-2017
Saint Joseph’s University, where FIRE defended a professor suspended and investigated over political tweets:
https://www.thefire.org/cases/saint-josephs-university-professor-suspended-and-investigated-tweets/news
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fire-letter-saint-josephs-university-february-23-2021
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fire-second-letter-saint-josephs-university-march-3-2021
San Francisco State, where FIRE defended a history professor investigated for showing an image of Muhammad in class:
https://www.thefire.org/news/deja-vu-san-francisco-state-university-threatens-academic-freedom-investigates-professor
https://www.thefire.org/colleges/san-francisco-state-university/cases
Then there’s Collin College:
Lora Burnett, fired after tweets criticizing Mike Pence and the college’s COVID response:
https://www.thefire.org/news/lawsuit-fired-criticizing-mike-pence-and-campus-covid-19-response-collin-college-history
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/burnett-tweet-about-mike-pence
https://www.thefire.org/sites/default/files/2020/10/23143109/FIRE-Second-Letter-to-Collin-College-October-22-2020.pdf
Suzanne Jones, a union advocate and critic of Confederate monuments and the college’s COVID response:
https://www.thefire.org/cases/jones-v-collin-college-professor-unconstitutionally-fired-unionizing-criticizing-colleges/news
https://www.thefire.org/cases/collin-college-professors-dismissed-over-covid-19-criticism-union-advocacy/news
Michael Phillips, an award-winning history professor who advocated removing Confederate monuments and criticized the college:
https://www.thefire.org/cases/phillips-v-collin-community-college-district-history-professor-fired-talking-about-history
https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-launches-new-free-speech-ad-campaign-featuring-collin-college-professors
More recent examples? Sure.
Rachida Primov at the University of Miami, after the university took issue with her wearing a “Palestine” sash in class:
https://www.thefire.org/cases/university-miami-university-takes-issue-professor-wearing-palestine-sash-during-class
https://www.thefire.org/sites/default/files/2024/09/FIRE%20Letter%20to%20University%20of%20Miami%2C%20September%209%2C%202024.pdf
Maha Nassar and other Arizona faculty targeted by a congressman over pro-Palestinian advocacy:
https://www.thefire.org/news/congressmans-call-investigation-university-arizona-faculty-would-if-granted-violate-first
Kenneth Wing at Seattle University, targeted by the Cardinal Newman Society:
https://www.thefire.org/colleges/seattle-university/scholars_under_fire
Malini Johar Schueller at the University of Florida, targeted from the right over Palestinian advocacy:
https://www.thefire.org/colleges/university-florida/scholars_under_fire
And if you want data instead of anecdotes, FIRE built the Scholars Under Fire project to document attempts to punish professors for protected expression:
https://www.thefire.org/sites/default/files/2021/07/28123754/scholars-under-fire-user-guide.pdf
https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/eternally-radical-idea/coddling-afterword-part-3-increasing-persecution-campus
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/scholars-under-fire-report-fire-faculty-network-webinar
So no, the historical record is not that FIRE went after professors for being too liberal. The record is that FIRE has spent decades defending professors across the spectrum, including a very long list of professors on the left and professors targeted by the right.
You can dislike FIRE. That’s your right. But this particular claim is just backward.
That's great! I stand corrected and gladly concede my point made early about the witch hunt, and I even apologize for it. I looked into each one of those links and found them to generally represent solid defenses of free speech, so it took me a while to respond. Although it is usually a tactic of right-leaning religious fundamentalists to declare they have some good intention "we care about women's health" or "we stand for free speech" to mask an overly conservative (and often extremist religious) agenda that erodes trust in institutions like universities, I would further say that FIRE does not completely fit that description. I did grow up in Southern Baptist conventions and churches, and often heard David French bemoan the "liberal indoctrination" occuring on campuses in more than one gathering, so I my skepticism largely comes from that and the equivocations right-wing religious communities use to mask their attempts at inserting religious beliefs into law. It seems as though some of that has been slightly transformed. While I remain skeptical of the criteria used for selecting cases (the overwhelming majority of them are defending conservative voices and you should know the foolishness of the question you asked about naming a left-leaning prof you didn't defend, although I can, Melissa McCoul), the language used in how FIRE pieces are written, the editorial positions on what incidents they cover, the survey criteria established by FIRE for determining free-speech infringements... I will certainly refrain from labeling FIRE "trash" or witch-hunting liberal professors.
Man, that's a deafeningly silent response from Jouly.
You guys have fought the IHRA. Which I think you shouldn’t have - or at least not in a black and white way, the enforcement methods are what matter IMO - but it strengthens your point.
The critique you offer may be well articulated but it doesn't fit the org you're aiming it at. FIRE has support on the left and the right, as it should.
Read my recent response. You're not wrong. Although, I would encourage you to look closely at FIRE's criteria for selecting cases and determining how to editorialize their messages, plus their emphasis on protecting conservative professors and denigrating the institutions of higher education.
You failed to name one liberal professor witch hunted by FIRE.
Why are you here on my page then Len? You seem hellbent on listening to my stuff!
Yeah I was in twitter mode there.
Ok, but why do you have such vitriol against my husband? His family fled Russia when he was 4 to avoid persecution, so he is as German as you are American. Not that any of that should matter in terms of one’s judgement of someone’s character.
My dad is Russian too, but my family fought the bad guys thank you very much! Don’t lump all of us together! There are plenty of good Russians, just a lot of of us left!
You are correct on that
What is the lie you are alleging?
“Canadians facing life imprisonment for hate speech.” That one.
no this bill was very much real. It was Bill C-63, the Online Harms Act, introduced by the Liberals back in Feb 2024. It straight-up would’ve changed the Criminal Code to make “advocating or promoting genocide” (which is a speech offence—words alone) punishable by up to life in prison (it was 5 years before). Plus it added a brand new “offence motivated by hatred” that could’ve tacked life imprisonment onto ANY federal crime if it was driven by hate based on race, religion, gender, etc. Free speech groups howled over it because yeah, it made life in prison for hate speech a real possibility.
Here’s the official bill text with the exact Criminal Code changes (check clauses 13-15 for the life stuff): https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/bill/C-63/first-reading
Justice Canada’s own explainer admitting the life sentences for genocide advocacy and the new hate-motivated offence: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c63.html
And the BC Civil Liberties Association breakdown on why the life imprisonment penalties were so alarming for hate-speech crimes: https://bccla.org/2024/09/whats-in-bill-c-63-why-are-we-alarmed/
It died later when Parliament got prorogued, but it was a real bill that was debated and everything. Not made up.
Ok, I stand corrected on that point!